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Leaving Neverland (Part 1) - Discussion

Leaving Neverland

Premise: Director Dan Reed's two-part documentary features interviews with Wade Robson and James Safechuck as well as their families as they discuss how the then two pre-teen boys were befriended by Michael Jackson.

r/LeavingNeverlandHBO[84/100] (score guide)

Part 2 airs Monday, March 4th at 8:00 PM ET.

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level 1
314 points · 2 months ago · edited 2 months ago

How creepy are those faxes though

Edit: Some screenshots

Edit 2: More

level 2
268 points · 2 months ago · edited 2 months ago

Yeah that's some pretty compelling evidence. To repeat a common sentiment here, even if you disregard the abuse accusations, there was something very strange about how close he was with children. He was the biggest superstar in the world, perhaps on a level that has never been equaled since, and yet he was lonely and had no friends. And this man who could quite literally have anything and anyone he wanted found the friendship and intimacy he was lacking with 10 year old boys? That is a fact and not open to debate, and is clearly very strange and unhealthy.

level 3

Being rich and famous closes people even further from having any meaningful connection. I remember Notch the creator of Minecraft saying he is even more lonely since he become rich.

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level 2

Omg imagine as a parent thinking there’s nothing wrong with that????

Like how??

I just don’t understand, it’s so creepy and just plain sick and wrong.

level 3

I think they explain pretty clearly what went through the parents mind.

First, there's the kind of appeal to authority fallacy - this person is SO FAMOUS, nearly God-like status, so there's the assumption of safety. This isn't just some creepy guy off the street.

Secondly, there's the sense that this is incredible for your child's career. This kind of friendship, although obviously strange, could be huge for your child.

And then there's the feeling of being special. MJ showered these families (not just the child, the entire family and the children's core guardian, aka the mom) with tons of attention, made them feel remarkable and "chosen." That's a powerful feeling.

I think all those factors accumulated to parents lowering their guard. Not to mention MJ did clearly enjoy spending time with these children as friends. Both mothers remark that MJ felt like a child to them, even almost a son to them. Once they saw him less as an adult man spending unusually large amounts of time with their vulnerable child, and instead saw him as a lonely boy who was so desperate for a friend, it was likely pretty easy to ignore what now seems like predatory behavior.

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level 2

Those faxes and that fucking Litttle One song back to back was crazy unsettling. That's that's not even taking into consideration the description of what MJ actually did to them

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level 2
34 points · 2 months ago

Shut up apple head! Want some hot milk n' cookies bb?

level 3
Comment deleted by user2 months ago(1 child)

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level 1
104 points · 2 months ago

Anyone notice how James Safechuck kept speaking about his past talking about himself generally as a “you” as opposed to saying “I”? As if the trauma was so bad he needs to distant himself to recount it. Man this doc makes me queasy.

level 2

Yes, I noticed that. I also felt like both of them still spoke about MJ in a weirdly romantic way at times. Almost like a daydream. The way he said "attraction" creeped me out. I guess you could say their subconscious is probably still brainwashed in many ways.

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level 1
98 points · 2 months ago

This thread is kind of interesting because it’s clearly full of people who were too young to remember the late 80s and early 90s, and just don’t get how this could have happened. They don’t understand a world where people didn’t assume everyone might be a pedophile, and they don’t understand that MJ was beyond a superstar.

Judging these moms and saying you’d have never fallen for it is not impressive when you’ve just watched a 2-4 hour documentary about it 30 years after the fact. It doesn’t make you savvy or street smart. There was a televised court case in the early 90s, and everyone knew how weird Michael Jackson was, and how much time he spent with kids, and still no one in America was really sure. The common refrain at the time was that because he grew up as a child star, he didn’t get to have a childhood, so maybe he was just trying to relive it. Only now is it clear that it was probably true, that he really did do these things. And it’s shocking and terrible and of course everyone wishes someone would have stopped it. But to suggest the moms are idiots who should have known the world’s biggest celebrity was molesting their kids demonstrates a total lack of understanding of the context

level 2

I tend to agree. People today still get caught up in MJ’s light. I’ve noticed a lot of commentators throughout threads on this documentary saying that MJ was a hack and that they’d never fall for his act, etc. Wrong. If MJ wasn’t so special, so talented, so mega-famous, this would never have been allowed to happen in the first place.

level 3
26 points · 2 months ago

This. My heart breaks for these grown adult victims talking about Michael with such fondness. They are clearly struggling with the realization that they were harmed.

To have this giant megastar god want to be a part of this average family's life had to have seemed like something out of a fantasy book.

His godlike popularity was definitely a smoke-screen. How the hell do you say no to Michael fucking Jackson?

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