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18

I'm sorry this is late. The Easter weekend had me very busy.

I took nine pages of notes and the overall theme that I got is that Jaehaerys I and Alysanne were very capable of keeping cool heads and handling any crisis that threatened to disrupt the peace in Westeros.

For example, after the Dowager Queen Alyssa died Rhaena violently threatened Ser Rogar. She blamed him for Alyssa's death but it wasn't anyone's fault. Rhaena thought she should have been the queen of Westeros but she was hot headed and prone to cruelty. She led all of Dragonstone in the example of mocking her husband Androw which eventually pushed him to a massive murder suicide event.

"You have everything and I have nothing. Now you would take my daughter too. Well, you shall not have her. You have my throne, content yourself with that."--Rhaena Targaryen to Queen Alysanne Targaryen.

When Jaehaerys was first annointed king he annoyed me because I figured he was some know it all kid who wanted things his way (like marrying his sister when most of the realm and all the faithful were against it.) However, he is very sensible and he definitely knows much about history. Plus he sees the larger picture and is practical. As a middle-class American I relate to the smallest of the small lords (well, technically ladies) and the smallfolk, so it was rewarding to read about how Jaehaerys traveled with only 1/10 as many people as Aegon I Targaryen had and never stayed anywhere long enough to create hardship for his lords. Plus with fewer people he could visit smaller lords, like the modern day politician who stops by small towns.

Queen Alysanne Targaryen was also very capable as a ruler. She listened to her subjects, even the lowborn, she came up with reasonable solutions, and she brought their concerns to the small council. She didn't give up easily either, if Jaehaerys disagreed she knew how to push an issue without getting hateful.

Quotes I liked: "On the fourth ballot, the Most Devout broke tradition, choosing a man who was not of their own number." That blurring of tradition is the sort of thing that leads to a child being elected High Septon many years later.

"It was her Valyrian blood that saved her." No, it's because she (Rhaena) wasn't poisoned. But I wonder if that readiness to conclude that she must have stayed alive because she was Valyrian is something that passed down as folklore to Daenerys of the current (300 AC) time line.

"... these victories had turned to ashes in his mouth with the death of his mother." When I first read the series I couldn't figure out why Cersei panicked so hard when Tyrion threatened to turn her joy to ashes but now I think that "ashes turning to joy" is a Westerosi euphemism for "someone you love is going to die."

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7 comments

Yes, I am rereading the books and I’ve seen the phrase “turn into ashes in his mouth” several times by multiple characters.

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Original Poster2 points · 1 day ago

I definitely need a re-read. In my memory, in the five main books, that was always referencing Tyrion's specific comment to Cersei, but it's entirely possible that the phrase was used in other circumstances. I can't always trust my recollection. 😉

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There is so much incredible information in this chapter but I'm only going to focus this post on one thing. Dragons.

Princess Aerea came back on Balerion after an unscheduled trip to Valyria. I think her "I never" would have been "I never meant to (actually steal the dragon)." She was a 13 year old kid, after all. Her skin was as hot as boiling oil and she was filled with worms with faces and snakes with hands. They had to be firewyrms. Dragons are fire made flesh, and Valyrians are The Blood of The Dragon. Was this how the first Targaryens were made?

From the World of Ice and Fire:

In Septon Barth's Dragons, Wyrms, and Wyverns, he speculated that the bloodmages of Valyria used wyvern stock to create dragons. This claim is considered far-fetched by most maesters (because) there is proof that dragons existed in Westeros before Valyria rose to power.

Dragons are strongly associated with magic. The Children of the Forest are strongly associated with magic. Did the Children create dragons? Dragons seem to be literally repealed by The Wall, almost like magnets with the same polarity. Queen Alysanne tried to fly Silverwing past The Wall three times and those were the only three times the dragon ever refused to go where the queen directed her.

I think Septon Barth was on the right track but the Valyrians didn't create dragons, they created dragonriders. The Targaryens (and the few other dragonrider families) were basically science experiments. Princess Aerea was an example of the early, long forgotten, process of creating dragon people.

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Well I think maybe those wyrms with faces and wings, actually need Valyrian blood to transform into other things...like dragons. Aerea's chapter reminds me the films "alien" where the xenomorphs are created by some short of alien creatures inbreeding inside humans and as a result the xenomorphs get their final stage apearance. Knowing that Valyrians experimented with their slaves ( see origins of the faceless men) my tinfoil theory is that valyrians created dragons by infecting part of their own population, their own families !! with firewyrms. Of course Targs are blood of the dragon, of course they HAVE to intermarry to still have pure blood, both dragonrider families and dragons were binded by blood and fire..wyrms. I think" fire and blood" sigil of the Targaryen points that: how to make a dragon

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Original Poster3 points · 9 days ago

I think" fire and blood" sigil of the Targaryen points that: how to make a dragon

That makes a lot of sense. 👍🏻

Some time ago I wrote my reactions to the Aerea death scene here:

https://reddit.proxyof.info/r/asoiaf/comments/aba97z/spoilers_extended_on_aereas_death_herods_evil_and/


I'll write my views on the entire chapter later today.

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Original Poster2 points · 10 days ago

Thanks for linking to your post. I can't wait to read what you think.

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Wasn't there a dead dwarf with an exceptionally large head mentioned in A Storm of Swords? I tried searching some obvious terms in the ASOIAF search website but haven't had any luck finding the passage I remember.

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There was a dwarf Brienne met in the Riverlands who claimed to be a sparrow. Later on in the story that dwarf's head was delivered to Cersei after she put a bounty on Tyrion.

"By the time Brienne found the Seven Swords again, the common room was crowded. Four septas sat closest to the fire, in robes stained and dusty from the road. Elsewhere locals filled the benches, sopping up bowls of hot crab stew with chunks of bread. The smell made her stomach rumble, but she saw no empty seats. Then a voice behind her said, "M'lady, here, have my place." Not until he hopped off the bench did Brienne realize that the speaker was a dwarf. The little man was not quite five feet tall. His nose was veined and bulbous, his teeth red from sourleaf, and he was dressed in the brown roughspun robes of a holy brother, with the iron hammer of the Smith dangling down about his thick neck.

"Keep your seat," she said. "I can stand as well as you." Brienne II AFFC"

Is this the person you're thinking of?

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Original Poster1 point · 11 days ago

I don't think so. I read the part where his head was presented to Cersei and it wasn't singled out as being exceptionally large. Thanks though.

2 points · 12 days ago

Me too! I watched it when it first aired and I was SO BUMMED that CBS (I think it was CBS) canceled it halfway through the season and I had to wait until the whole season aired in Europe before I could torrent it and finish it.

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It's awesome to find a fellow fan. Threshold was really good and the crazy thing is how much like early season Tyrion the character Arthur Ramsey was and it came out years before GOT. I've recommended it to a lot of people.

2 points · 12 days ago

I think GRRM saw it and knew that was Tyrion. I heard GRRM said he specifically wanted Dinklage for GoT.

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That makes sense. The characters are so similar.

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He and Varys agreed that Tyrion was the best at pooping in a box.

I hate to sound like a stalker (because I'm really not) but I'm 90% sure he has a dog like that.

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😢 I won't get to start the new season until week 4, I think. My husband's parents are coming to visit and I promised I'd watch it for the first time with them. Watching GOT together is kinda our thing. But it's gonna suck hard when I'm not watching Tyrion win the throne with the rest of you. I'll be there rooting for The Halfman in spirit. 👍🏻

Halfman, Halfman, Halfman!

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6 points · 14 days ago

Spoken like a true cock merchant!

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🤣😂🤣

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